More online poker drama

[Lion King]

Man I stumbled across this article, not sure how much of it is true, but WOW. It makes me wonder how many other online gambling sites operate like this. It's not like any of them make there accounting records public to prove that they have all of the funds in cash that are actually in play.

United States Department of Justice Claims Howard Lederer, Chris Ferguson, Ray Bitar Defrauded Players of $440 Million

[donkeypunch]

This can't be real, right? I mean this sounds like a movie. Amazing.

[Lion King]

It sure makes it clear why pokerstars returned players funds within a couple weeks compared to full tilt coming up with excuse after excuse. Stars was and is well run business. I dunno if u read in depth about the Russ Hamilton cheating scandal on ultimate bet but that is a great story as well.

[Louie]

The DOJ (I add; the "Obama Run" DOJ) admits that Full Tilt had at least 50-60 Million on hand for payouts. You don't need to have 100% of all player account balances on hand to cover every single dollar. You do need to have at least 50%. Granted, FTP had slightly questionable business practices (and they should have had at least 50% of the balances on hand to cover payouts). But, to call it a "Ponzi Scheme" isn't accurate.

Even major banks don't have every dollar on hand to cover all the account balances (which is why every one taking their money out at once would destroy the financial system), but the DOJ doesn't call Bank of America a "Ponzi sceme".

Also, to prove that an operation is a "ponzi scheme", you have to prove intent. Full Tilt wasn't at all started with the intent of stealing their player's money. If the gov't didn't come in and run them out of business, they would have been able to pay all players as the payouts were requested (and more money came in)...just as banks do...

Before the gov't (again...the "Obama Run" gov't) came in and ran all the major poker sites out of business, I never met a player that had a problem with a payout at FullTilt, PokerStars, or any other poker site.

Still IMO: Howard Leaderer, Phily Ivey, etc. should all have their bank accounts seized and have the money divided amongst all the players that haven't been paid. If the gov't says that FTP was a Ponzi scheme, they should have a victim's services fund where they attempt to recover all the funds and return it to the "victims" that were defrauded (just as they do with other financial Ponzi schemes). But, this won't happen, because they are only trying to make headlines.

The truth is, the gov't is just trying to clear out the market and make the offshore market seem illegitimate. This way they can create a void and fill that void by legalizing and regulating. They'll give online poker licenses to Steve Wynn, Sands, MGM, etc. (the 5-6 major corps in Vegas). By the way, those will be the only companies allowed to have licenses when they open the doors to legalization. It actually makes me sick the the DOJ is doing. It's all part of a plan.

[Lion King]

I agree. When I first read this it seemed accurate, but as more info has been made availiable, it seemed more like bad business practices than a ponzi scheme. There were prolly a good 10-20 players on that site who could of cashed out and cleared that 50 million. I heard dan "jungleman" cates had 5.6 million in his account. Add on Ivey, antonious, Hansen, bloom, dwan. From
What I understand, they had over 400 million in circulation on FTP and only 60 million in the bank. That's what roughly 15 %? it ll be interesting to see what happens. And ya have to wonder just how money the "executives" have in their bank accounts.

[Louie]

dan "jungleman" cates had 5.6 million in his account. Add on Ivey, antonious, Hansen, bloom, dwan..

LK,

Ivey, Leaderer, Hansen, etc... are all on the board of directors and are the people being accused of this. They are part owners in FTP and they will be having their bank accounts sized as well.

[Louie]

By the way, this is the exact reason I stopped endorsing BetUS back in April/May. I found out that they were running their operation similar to FTP;

They are using new deposits to pay future payouts and have less then 20% of the player balances on hand. Player withdrawls and affiliate payments began to take longer and longer (starting last November) until they decided to cut out advertisers and started delaying player payments.

I hear its getting worse over there and the word (from several former employees) is that they are a sinking ship. Player payments are next to get aced when this company finally sinks all together. I gave fair warning to everyone on this board about BetUS. They had a good run and were a good book for a while, but their poor business practices makes them no longer a viable or safe option.

Note: I repeat again, if you still have funds in BetUS, withdraw now and get out! If you still have rollover requirements because of bonuses, do whatever you have to do to meet the rollovers and get out. If they offer you a bonus to stay, don't take it.

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